lichess has no functional reporting and banning system

@sgtlaugh said in #11:
> I am curious. What makes you think cheating is so common here and they are not punished? Can you be specific and share your rationale for this belief?
>
> I don't think if you cherry-pick low CPL games or accurate games from your opponent and then mistakenly come to the conclusion that they cheated is a good metric. There are many reasons, some noteworthy would be that fluctuations are normal for any player. Only when there is a consistent pattern of suspicious play over many games can we conclude with high confidence that the user cheated.
>
> Also, in ~1500 games, often I've seen that there are blunders early in the opening phase. In such cases, it is actually quite easy to get a high accuracy or low CPL.

If you are curious as you say and demand a simple user like anyone else who has no access to the system to give you the answer you want with a high scientifical backup, why don't you with the same curiosity and formality demand from lichess such figures ? In fact why don't you request a 3rd party IT audit to lichess to finally kow what is going on and where we are standing. A 3rd IT audit is of outmost importance due to the lack of credibility from lichess on this matter( opaque as usual which is something rooted in lichess' dna -TOS-). I do not see your curiousity going so far ... I only see your curiosity putting in a corner the honest weaks demanding transparency, make me be wrong, I honestly want to be wrong.

@Cedur216 said in #28:
> Mods make public statements from time to time and there's also the NoJoke video so it is possible to know ...
You can't be serious, this problem is so big that is finishing the site. Cheating is BIIIIIIIIGGGGGG, BIIIIIGGGG, BIIIGGGG problem. A lot of people cheating and getting away with it, it is not a feeling of a couple of people as you (who do you think you are doing a favor to by the way???) it is VOX POPULI it is a S C A N D A L !!!.
We the honest users do not want fake statements and fake information. Lichess has totally lost credibility by hiding the real facts and trying to gag the people in the forum which have been putting on top of the discussion table this intolerable issue !
Enough institutional violence by lichess in the forum with its army of obsequents which harrass people who speak the real thing.

A 3rd party IT audit is necessary to restore credibility. This "Mods make public statement ..." and video by No joke ... that is for the kindergarden.

Do you believe that attitude of hiding the facts and being opaque as it is not already making lichess pay the price of it?

The algorithms are a laugh. The moderators do not ban anyone for cheating, they can't otherwise you hae to cut the users by millions ! Worst of all is lying to the people that trusts lichess in forms of fake statistics and paid actors.

This cheating thing has been there for a long time and the wrong tak up by lichess is making the snowball bigger and biggeer, of course. That is what you backup @Cedur216 remove your mask and do not harrass honest users asking for transparency.

@Erisian said in #23:
> I said "now". In the past I did on other accounts. But nothing ever happens or if someone does decide to actually take action so many games pass by you don't get any rating back anyway. So it's entirely pointless. Not only will nobody actually do anything in all likelihood, but if they do then so long will have passed that you aren't getting anything back by the time someone does. So why would I? It's a complete waste of time.

You are absolutely right @Erisian , instead of banning the cheaters they harass you simply because you state the facts. Welcome to lichess.

They would have to ban millions of accounts. The problem is unstoppable and once again lichess without a real solution,hiding the facts and trying to gag the people stating the facts in the forums, in other words against the honest users who demand transparency. Lichess and its brains can only guarantee one thing, that cheating will happen ! and that's evil man.

@MentalFugues said in #22:
> How do you know nothing ever happens if you never report?

It is a fact that nothing happens, report it or not. Do not harass the honest users who do not cheat and demand transparency, you only do a favor to the cheaters @MentalFugues The cheating problem in lichess is a SCANDAL, but above all due to the efforts of lichess to hide the problem and gag the users who report it, do not play that game @MentalFugues you do not do a favor to lichess or any honest being around here.

@for_cryingout_loud said in #26:
> All these cheat forms are the same things
>
> Y: non staff fighting over how reports are handled and cheaters
>
> X; non staff fighting over how reports are handled and cheaters
>
> Neither knowing of us how lichess actually does it
> And no one wanting to put in the effort to use third party software and see.

I agree, you are stating the facts, soon you will ba harassed by the usual trolls, the same ones in all threads in the forum with the ok from the moderators, any attempt from a honest user to demand transparency they blow it. Welcome to lichess.

#27
> can anyone help me any member of lichess for verifying for title as i tried to fill the form and attach documents but it has some bug ive been trying to do it for a long time but its not working so please if anyone can help me

Please see lichess.org/help/master
We do not accept FIDE Online Arena titles, i.e. ACM-AGM ones, nor do we accept ICCF titles. NM applications may have additional requirements.
The form works as we get applications every day.

#21
>Well this site sucks ass now so no I don't bother reporting them, no. No point since nothing ever happens anyway.

This isn't true, since people get banned all the time, for various reasons.
However, one needs to remember that people don't get banned just because someone reported them.
There are people who report every single person that they lose to, for example. Or have a high level of paranoia, which isn't healthy.

@war_rocket_ajax said in #7:
> Thank you for the constructive and informative feedback so far. Especially for_cryingout_loud and Brian-E. I even Thank Cedur216 for presenting an unhelpful attitude himself. Quite funny actually.
>
> I do not know what else could be done to get rid of cheaters. I thought that getting a better reporting system would help but I am starting to think that this may not be the case. If cheating cannot be improved and we have to accept it as normal on lichess then I will rather do play over the board and concentrate on chess.com. At this point I think that cheating too big a problem and I have no confidence in the reporting system here on lichess.
>
> If chess.com has some miscarriages of justice then so be it. I rather prefer that then the lawlessness here on lichess where every 1500 is a Magnus Carlsen beater and gets away with it. And me reporting those perfect accurate and 10 to 30 centipawn losses means nothing.
>
> As a matter of fact where do you think cheaters will go? The site that is soft on cheaters or to the site that is more strict and has better and easier reporting against cheaters? Judging by the member numbers many people have already voted with their feet. It is a shame that cheating and the obvious unwillingness of lichess to tackle this issue seems to cause a lower user base. But this is a guess of mine and I will not spend any time on researching this. I hope things will improve but if not soon then I will simply play more on chess.com and OTB.

I agree with you, the CHEATING PROBLEM in lichess is literally a S C A N D A L. Lichess not only is unable to stop it but sadly puts the efforts in covering the mouth of any honest user stating the facts and demanding transparency. To start with the real figures backed up by 3rd party IT audit, it is not enough that some moderator say 0,0005% cheating ... c'mon there are millions of cheaters out there!!! that is the reason they cannot ban them. Lichess has lost its credibility by hiding the facts and figures which would give a truthful idea of the dimension of the problem (BIIIIGGGG).

Soon you will be attacked by the same trolls who do the dirty job for lichess which is harassing legitimate and honest users who demand transparency in the forum with the ok from moderators, those trolls are the same all the time, you can see them in the different threads, the same accounts whenever a demand for transparency is there.

Carry on with your proposals, you are not alone, I also want a better and real chess site and not what lichess has turned to lately. Do not get discouraged by the threats and harassing I stand in your same line, nothing worth has ever been conquerred without a fight.

@Artem-Kozirev if any website have strong anti-cheating algorithms, it's lichess.
With the friend's word and a little self-research i figured out, it's almost impossible to evade this AI watch against cheating, if you are cheating.
The only problem in my opinion is too much trust on those algorithms by moderators.
If you report policy is :" computer better detect cheating than human -ignore"
On the other hand there is some percentage of innocent players banned, and policy is : " if he is xy% guilty, he is guilty."
Moderators won't admit it in public, but that's logical.
I agree that more human logical thinking should be involved, not just AI.
But @Artem-Kozirev there are definitely not too many cheater. A very few are smart enough to sucessfuly evade cheat detection, they'll get caught sooner or later.

@borninthesixties said in #30:
> Sounds great now, what happens when you play a nearly perfect game or two and chess.com closes your account for cheating? I bet you'd be singing a different tune.
>
> I love the hyperbole though - "every 1500 is a Magnus Carlsen beater and gets away with it." Nothing helps one's cause like hyperbole!

In other words lichess can only guarantee cheating ! Brilliant hyperbole !

@username2 said in #38:
> @Artem-Kozirev if any website have strong anti-cheating algorithms, it's lichess.
> With the friend's word and a little self-research i figured out, it's almost impossible to evade this AI watch against cheating, if you are cheating.
> The only problem in my opinion is too much trust on those algorithms by moderators.
> If you report policy is :" computer better detect cheating than human -ignore"
> On the other hand there is some percentage of innocent players banned, and policy is : " if he is xy% guilty, he is guilty."
> Moderators won't admit it in public, but that's logical.
> I agree that more human logical thinking should be involved, not just AI.
> But @Artem-Kozirev there are definitely not too many cheater. A very few are smart enough to sucessfuly evade cheat detection, they'll get caught sooner or later.

Two things:
1) The famous AI anticheating algorithms is a myth, they only work under so many restrictions and always with the help of a team of experts to be conclusive that make it impossible to be used for the massive number of games currently going on...

At certain level it is enough advantage if you can look at an evaluation bar, knowing if you are better or worse and when to take time to think for a move if your opponent made a mistake or a blunder and in this case the algorithm is toilet paper.

2) You say there are not so many cheaters, another say 2%, 10%, 50%. This is the point this is not e-bay. We need the real figures backed up by 3rd party IT audit which certifies the statistics, lichess lost all credibility on this already.
Scientifically speaking you do not say "very little" or "a lot ..." you give a number which you can verify, that is the first thing to do and give the problem a dimension. My peresonal feeling is what I said, millions ! I would like to be wrong, prove me, but prove me wrong, it is not enough that some smarta** said in a video "oh,, it is 0,0005% it's nothing" you see my point ? Regarding those who say " if you minimize the problem then people will think it is an isolated issue and that is "healthy" for the site" That is an old line from 2 years ago, today it is vox populi the site is flooded with chaters though some still persist in going in that dead end direction.